Legislature(1997 - 1998)

01/21/1998 03:30 PM House BUD

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
Legislative Budget and Audit                                                   
January 21, 1998                                                               
3:30 p.m.                                                                      
State Capitol                                                                  
Juneau, Alaska                                                                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
Tape: LBA-982101                                                               
Tape 1 Side 1                                                                  
                                                                               
                                                                               
CALL TO ORDER                                                                  
                                                                               
Chairman Phillips convened the meeting of the Legislative Budget               
and Audit Committee on January 21, 1998, at approximately 3:40                 
p.m. in the State Capitol, Juneau, Alaska.  Representative Hanley              
was excused to meet with the Speaker.                                          
                                                                               
PRESENT                                                                        
                                                                               
The following members were present:                                            
                                                                               
 Senators     Representatives                                                  
                                                                               
 Chairman Phillips    Representative Martin                                    
 Senator Adams    Representative Bunde                                         
 Senator Donley    Representative Croft                                        
 Senator Halford    Representative James                                       
 Senator Pearce     Representative Therriault                                  
       Representative Hanley                                                   
(alternate)                                                                    
                                                                               
ALSO PRESENT                                                                   
                                                                               
Pat Davidson, Acting Chief Legislative Auditor; Dane Larson,                   
Legislative Auditor, Anchorage Manager; Mike Greany, Legislative               
Fiscal Analyst; Jerome Komisar, President of the University of                 
Alaska.                                                                        
                                                                               
APPROVAL OF MINUTES                                                            
                                                                               
Representative Martin MOVED to approve the 1997 minutes for the                
following dates:                                                               
                                                                               
 January 13                                                                    
 January 16                                                                    
 February 26                                                                   
 March 24                                                                      
 July 30                                                                       
 October 8                                                                     
                                                                               
(Representative Therriault was now present; Representative Bunde               
left the meeting)                                                              
                                                                               
Representative Martin WITHDREW his motion until a quorum of                    
members was present.                                                           
                                                                               
CONSIDERATION OF AUDITS, RELEASE OF AUDITS AND PRELIMINARY AUDIT               
REQUESTS                                                                       
                                                                               
Chairman Phillips - We have the University of Alaska's response                
to the request of an audit.                                                    
                                                                               
Pat Davidson - I would recommend to the Committee that they move               
to go into Executive Session.                                                  
                                                                               
Representative Martin MOVED to go into Executive Session to                    
discuss the University of Alaska's selective Russian programs.                 
                                                                               
Chairman Phillips reconvened the meeting.                                      
                                                                               
APPROVAL OF MINUTES                                                            
                                                                               
Representative Martin MOVED to approve the minutes of January 13,              
January 16, February 26, March 24, July 30, and October 8, 1997.               
                                                                               
Chairman Phillips - Hearing no objection, the motion was                       
APPROVED.                                                                      
                                                                               
The minutes of August 22 and December 12 will be brought before                
the Committee at the next meeting.                                             
                                                                               
CONSIDERATION OF AUDITS, RELEASE OF AUDITS AND PRELIMINARY AUDIT               
REQUESTS                                                                       
                                                                               
Representative Martin MOVED since there is now a quorum present                
to go into Executive Session for the response on the University                
of Alaska's selective Russian program with the possibility of                  
talking about personalities and other financial considerations.                
                                                                               
Chairman Phillips - Hearing no objection, the motion was                       
APPROVED.                                                                      
                                                                               
EXECUTIVE SESSION                                                              
                                                                               
Chairman Phillips reconvened the meeting to the public at 4:40                 
p.m.                                                                           
                                                                               
Representative Martin MOVED a thirty-day automatic release for                 
the special audit requested on the Department of Education, Pupil              
Transportation Program, approximate release date February 22.                  
                                                                               
Senator Donley - When we preliminarily release these they go to                
the Department  Are they then completely public so people can                  
comment on them?                                                               
                                                                               
Pat Davidson - The process we have gone through during the                     
interim is we send the preliminary audit to the agency, give them              
20 days to respond to us.  What we then do is incorporate their                
response with the report and send it to the Committee members for              
their consideration for seven days.  If we don't hear any                      
objection from the Committee members, it will be released.                     
                                                                               
Senator Donley - Since the Pupil Transportation Program directly               
impacts a certain school district also and a lot of the                        
information came from the school district and not the Department               
of Education, is there a way the school district could look at it              
also?                                                                          
                                                                               
Pat Davidson - Yes.  The Municipality of Anchorage?                            
                                                                               
Senator Donley - I think at least the Municipality should have an              
opportunity to look at it and comment.                                         
                                                                               
Representative Martin - Ms. Davidson, you will show that it is                 
confidential?                                                                  
                                                                               
Pat Davidson - Yes                                                             
                                                                               
Senator Donley - Could that be part of the motion?                             
                                                                               
Representative Martin AMENDED the motion to include releasing the              
special audit also to the agencies that need to respond.                       
                                                                               
Chairman Phillips - Hearing no motion, the amended motion was                  
APPROVED.                                                                      
                                                                               
Representative Martin MOVED that the sunset audit on the                       
Department of Public Safety, Council for Domestic Violence and                 
Sexual Assault be approved for the public; the regular audit on                
the Department of Fish & Game, Estimated FY97 Board Attendance                 
Costs be released to the public and the other general audit done               
on Travel Compensation Survey be released to the public.                       
                                                                               
Chairman Phillips - Hearing no objection, the motions were                     
APPROVED.                                                                      
                                                                               
Representative Martin - For consideration is the agreement by                  
Senator Pearce and Representative Hudson to withdraw the                       
recommendation on the audit on the Department of Transportation,               
Public Employees right termination settlement.  I'd like to MOVE               
that this audit request be withdrawn.                                          
                                                                               
Chairman Phillips - Was that something we approved or is this                  
old?                                                                           
                                                                               
Pat Davidson - The Committee needs to approve the withdrawal of                
this request.                                                                  
                                                                               
Chairman Phillips - Hearing no objection, the motion was                       
APPROVED.                                                                      
                                                                               
Pat Davidson - There was one memo that covered both of the audits              
to be withdrawn.                                                               
                                                                               
Representative Martin - Both were Representative Hudson and                    
Senator Pearce.                                                                
                                                                               
Representative Martin MOVED to approve the audit request by                    
Representative Foster of the Department of Community and Regional              
Affairs, Division of Energy, Bulk Fuel Grant funds to the City of              
Teller.                                                                        
                                                                               
Chairman Phillips - Hearing no objection, the motion was                       
APPROVED.                                                                      
                                                                               
Representative Martin MOVED to approve the audit request by                    
Representative Martin and Senator Phillips of the Alaska Energy                
Authority and AIDEA on the Four Dam Pool management for the last               
three years overviewing their costs of operation.                              
                                                                               
Senator Pearce objected.  I feel what you are asking the auditors              
to do is too broad.  What are we specifically looking for?  Is                 
there any way to narrow it down?                                               
                                                                               
Representative Martin - In consideration of Senator Pearce's                   
request, we've had no knowledge in the last few years nor have                 
there been any audits done on the management costs of the Four                 
Dam Pool.  We know that they have the authority and it is pretty               
much that the Board rubber stamps its own expenditures.  We do                 
not know because of the cost to the state and consumer what their              
average annual cost has been over the years.  There has been                   
concern by consumers that because we don't know what impact it                 
has on the state or consumer we should have some idea how much                 
they are spending and why.                                                     
                                                                               
Senator Pearce - That's not information available in the budget                
process?                                                                       
                                                                               
Representative Martin - No.  I haven't seen it.  We know what                  
AIDEA approved but we haven't specifically looked at the Four Dam              
Pool management unit.                                                          
                                                                               
Chairman Phillips - What we could do is go ahead and give it a                 
conditional approval and let the auditors come back at the next                
meeting and tell us what they can and cannot do with the time and              
manpower we have available to us.  That's my suggestion at this                
time.  We do have a lot of audits.  Ms Davidson, have your                     
Division look at it and narrow it down and tell us what you can                
really do.                                                                     
                                                                               
Pat Davidson - What we could do is write a letter to the people                
and ask them for information and then advise the Committee here                
is the numbers and what else do you want us to do?                             
                                                                               
Chairman Phillips - Why don't you move it with that                            
understanding, Representative Martin.                                          
                                                                               
Representative Martin AMENDED the motion to include the                        
understanding Senator Pearce addressed.                                        
                                                                               
Chairman Phillips - Hearing no objection, the amended motion was               
APPROVED.                                                                      
                                                                               
STATUS OF OUTSTANDING AUDITS                                                   
                                                                               
Pat Davidson - What I tried to do in this memorandum of January                
19 to the Committee was give a perspective in terms of workload                
of the audit agency and then detail out where we are.  What the                
chart shows is in 1993 and 1994 is we had a significant workload               
between the sunsets and special audits.  What happened in 1995                 
and 1995 is the requests coming in slowed down and we were able                
to catch up.  We probably were pretty good at the end of 1996 and              
then the audit requests started again in 1997.                                 
                                                                               
Generally what we do is we take them as they come.  Sometimes                  
there are going to be differences.  Sometimes an auditor has a                 
particular expertise in an area and we're going to wait for that               
auditor or if that auditor frees up we might bump one ahead.                   
Generally we try to do them in order.  There are Committee                     
requests; there are the sunset audits which are required by                    
Statute as well as the state licensing audit which is a                        
combination of a state Statute with regard to the financial                    
statements and Federal compliance in terms of the single audit                 
portion.                                                                       
                                                                               
In this listing, we talk about the statewide single audit (one                 
audit).  What I tried to do was identify what are we doing, where              
are we at when it comes to that audit and that's what the list of              
all those departments are.  In terms of the Committee requests, I              
believe we are going to get for the next meeting the Public                    
Defender, Agricultural Revolving Loan Fund and Department of                   
Education, Special Education.  We have a high priority audit in                
terms of the Child Custody and Child Protection.  Our auditors                 
have a travel request into me and they're heading out.                         
                                                                               
In terms of the pending audit requests as you look at them they                
can fall into a couple of categories.  One is performance audits,              
looking at the operations of the divisions; the other one how is               
the program running.  I would say the Pt. McKenzie Correctional                
Facility is that one.  There is concern about the financial                    
operations as well as is Pt. McKenzie running the way it should                
be running.  The Division of Alcohol and Drug Abuse is basically               
an outcome audit.  We put a lot of money into that program, what               
are the outcomes; what do we get for that money and that is what               
that type of audit is.                                                         
                                                                               
Then sometime audit requests come in which are frustration with                
the agency in not providing information to the Committee                       
requested by individual legislators.  They will ask the Audit                  
Division to come in.  I don't think there are any slack audits in              
here.  They are all very good questions, very important                        
questions.  That is the workload we have right now.                            
                                                                               
Representative Therriault - I think we probably have to do what                
we just did.  When we get one and it has to be narrowed then we                
do it.  Maybe we might determine some aren't justified; perhaps                
staff can attempt to get the answer and come back to us if                     
they're unsuccessful.  Clearly the backlog is building.  We need               
to take some steps.                                                            
                                                                               
Chairman Phillips - I'll be sitting down with the auditors; see                
where they are.  I'll bring back to the Committee a                            
recommendation on how they are going to proceed with this                      
backlog.  We've had a lot of requests this summer, more than I've              
ever see.  This is the second time for me as Chairman and there                
are a lot.  I think we need to slow down so people can do their                
job.  By next meeting, I'll have an update and recommendation for              
the Committee.                                                                 
                                                                               
Representative Bunde - It might be that the Committee's job is to              
not only screen the audits but to prioritize the backlog.                      
                                                                               
Senator Pearce - Have you every looked at the workloads and                    
divided them out between the agencies and corporations that we've              
set up for special programs?  Are there a lot of audits that come              
in for special things we've set up that aren't internal to the                 
daily management of the department?                                            
                                                                               
Pat Davidson - We do get a lot of requests for the quasi                       
corporations we set up.  I think it is because their operations                
are not as visible.  Their financial operations don't run through              
the same mechanisms.  The programs they are trying to operate are              
different than the norm of government entities.  Maybe the                     
budgetary scrutiny may not be the same as you give to a general                
funded program.                                                                
                                                                               
Representative Martin - We might also discuss what particular                  
audits that the Division has handled year in and year out that                 
can be contracted out and be done initially that way.                          
                                                                               
Chairman Phillips - That is part of the process I plan to do over              
the next few weeks.                                                            
                                                                               
APPOINTMENT OF LEGISLATIVE AUDITOR                                             
                                                                               
Chairman Phillips - As of last December we appointed a                         
subcommittee to first advertise the position and also go through               
a selection process.  We selected three candidates which the                   
subcommittee yesterday interviewed and the subcommittee is                     
recommending to this Committee that Dane Larson be our chief                   
auditor.  I'd like to have a motion and then answer questions.                 
                                                                               
The process is the subcommittee recommends to this Committee; the              
Committee as a whole recommends the name which is submitted to                 
the President of the Senate and Speaker of the House.  Those                   
respective bodies will vote on the name.  In the past, the Senate              
just had a vote.  The House sent it to the Finance Committee and               
the Finance Committee made a recommendation back to the body as a              
whole for the House of Representatives approval.  That was the                 
process.                                                                       
                                                                               
Representative Martin MOVED that the full Committee accept the                 
recommendation from the subcommittee to appoint Dane Larson as                 
the new Chief Legislative Auditor.                                             
                                                                               
Senator Adams objected.                                                        
                                                                               
Representative Bunde MOVED to go into Executive Session for the                
discussion of personnel issues.                                                
                                                                               
Chairman Phillips - Hearing no objection, the motion to go into                
Executive Session was APPROVED.                                                
                                                                               
EXECUTIVE SESSION                                                              
                                                                               
Chairman Phillips reconvened the meeting to the public at 5:20                 
p.m.                                                                           
                                                                               
Representative Martin renewed his motion that the full Committee               
accept the subcommittee recommendation of the appointment of Dane              
Larson as Chief Legislative Auditor.                                           
                                                                               
Senator Adams objected.                                                        
                                                                               
Chairman Phillips hearing an objection called for a roll call                  
vote.                                                                          
                                                                               
 Yea Representative Bunde, Representative Croft, Senator                       
Halford, Representative    Therriault, Senator Phillips,                       
Representative Martin, Representative James                                    
 Nay Senator Adams, Senator Pearce                                             
                                                                               
(Senator Donley was not present for the vote)                                  
                                                                               
Chairman Phillips - The motion was APPROVED by a vote of 7-2.                  
                                                                               
Mr. Dane Larson's name will go before the both the House and                   
Senate for approval.                                                           
                                                                               
OTHER BUSINESS                                                                 
                                                                               
Representative Bunde - The final audits that are being released                
to the departments for their comments and the Executive Travel                 
Summary being released to the Executive Branch are they available              
to the public now?                                                             
                                                                               
Representative Martin - Yes.  The only one which is not public                 
pertains to the Department of Education.                                       
                                                                               
Chairman Phillips - We need a motion to approve Pat Davidson as                
Acting Legislative Auditor until the appointment of Dane Larson.               
                                                                               
Pat Davidson - I am right now the Acting Chief Legislative                     
Auditor.  We are recommending that you change that to Dane Larson              
as Acting.                                                                     
                                                                               
Senator Pearce - Why change it until both bodies approve it?                   
                                                                               
Chairman Phillips - We'll leave it as it stands now.                           
                                                                               
ADJOURNMENT                                                                    
                                                                               
Chairman Phillips adjourned the meeting.                                       
                                                                               
(End, Tape:  LB&A-982101 Tape 1 Side 1 #842)                                   
                                                                               
LB&A 8 01/21/98                                                                

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